This is one of the most interesting post-discussions on Discogs, and I've been on here since 2003!And linked to a record rated 3.43/5 at time of writing, LOL.Could I say you're both right?I would say not enough of us Americans especially those having lived in the Midwest such as myself acknowledge the leaps of innovation in electronic music resulting from the contributions of European artists. It's neater to say "Untitled" from X-Ray was the first techno track or something and call it a day. One of the wonderful things about Hyperreal, deephouspages, Discogs and other internet resources is that they have helped thousands of people across the world learn so much more about the underground and experimental roots of late modern dance music. The more you dig, the more you realize that there are those whose talent and hard work have elevated them to prominence, but thousands of other one-offs who pushed things forward with innovation. Italo disco, kraut rock, and Belgian EBM and new beat scenes, synthesiser experimentalists across disco and post punk genres... All contributed to what would be considered techno just as Chicago and Detroit and of course New York artists, not to mention many other places here (from Columbus, Ohio to Austin to Madison to Minneapolis to Miami to Philly...). I think certain certain artists at certain times made huge innovations that pushed things forward. For example you could say Suicide were among the first punk bands to experiment with synths, but you would be forgetting the kraut rockers; or Miller's warm leatherette a few years later.... Kraftwerk deserve so much credit for CONSISTENTLY pushing the boundaries forward. And guess who their shining light was? James Brown. Richard 23 deserves at least as much credit, along with Tom Ellard, Al Jourgensen or Vince Clark or KLF for pushing electronic music forward into techno. We could go on.I think what is driving the passion of the conversation is acknowledging unsung heroes. Talla was influential in pushing forward EBM into techno. What gets tricky is disentangling influence. Surely Renaat and Sabine were influential in bringing people and sounds together. EBM and industrial influenced Medusa club heads and Muzic Box devotees so Chicago was this melting pot of influences, Ron Hardy playing Kikrokos and liaisons dangereuses and Hot Rod at Medusas mixing Severed Heads and early Chicago house minimalism. Underground resistance guys and kevin saunderson were very influenced by EBM. One of my own mix tapes from 2000ish mixes Forces and let your body learn and then Stardancer. I think it's good to give credit where it's due. More conversations like this help with that.

Junie Morrison, Juan Atkins and Man Parrish clearly had no intentions of using the word "Techno" as a music genre. They more relate to the "Techno Twins" in this aspect. Atkins , Saunders, and Man Parrish's music is EBM. There is nothing Techno about their music. Only The United States recognizes them as innovators. But it is like trying to say that the NFL is Football to the rest of the world. A total mix-up and misconception. The Techno freaks did not create "Techno" but they were one of the earliest groups to have used the style that became so known in the 90s. In order for early Techno music to BE Techno music it must have that synth sound (as is in the IBIZA track of the Techno Freaks) and a Hammer sounding beat which defines it. Atkins and company sounded more like late 80s Free style mix with EBM, not too much creativity there. Talla on the other hand was the true Innovator and "father" of Techno music. He created the sounds which became so popular in the early 90s. To truly understand what the whole world (besides the UK and the USA) consider Techno to be everyone should listen to some early tracks like Bigod 20's Body to Body, Robotiko Rejekto- Rejekto, Intact-Acts of Sensation, O- Das Spiel, Age of Love- Age of Love, Atahualpa- Ultimo Imperio, Bit Max- Dig It,Metropolis- Time of War, ABS- Without a Fight, Recall IV- Contrast to name a few. This music is totally different to what americans considered to be Techno. There have been hundreds of instances where the word "Techno"appeared on covers of albums throughout the ages but none considered it as a music style before Talla 2xLC.

You are not even reading responses, and are making more errors, while you go around in circles. Let's recap: Talla was calling New Order, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, Heaven 17, Front 242 etc "techno" as early as 1984, so according to this account - watch the video interview - techno existed before Talla was actually making it: so the music he was making was music inspired by the above artists, and this is music he was calling techno. Believe it or not - and this is fact, it is not "my opinion" - Juan Atkins and Derrick May were also influenced by similar music - and by house and electro - during exactly the same period. Detroit techno was noticed by the music press first, in the UK magazine The Face, they got the concept into the public sphere first, so they get the credit, there's not much more to it.

1 of 2? Talla jumped on the bandwagon in the 1980s when he was creating so much music??? Bigod 20, Robotiko Rejekto ect.... Then you are really up there in the clouds. I am suppose to take an opinion of an unknown compared to Talla and what most of Germany and Europe for that sake says? sure.Or maybe the award that he received for all his achievements is based on a lie? You are ridiculous as are your claims. I never said Talla didnt play EBM,its obvious he did. But the difference is that he always expiremented with new sounds and styles from the early 80s. All his projects were creating new music and by every song you could see the significant change in which the EBM was evolving into Techno. A perfect example of what early Techno music is the track "Body to Body" by Talla's Bigod 20 project. It came out before Detroit! the new sound of Techno by quite some months. You can cleary hear the Techno sound from that track alone. And that was not even close to being his earliest Techno sounding track. A song like that was unheard of anywhere in the world and especially the USA where Freestyle was "The" music scene. You speak about Voltaire of 1990, Talla already was using the word "Techno" on labels being released for almost 4 years prior and you blindly choose to ignore that fact. You pick and choose what you like to believe about Talla while the facts that contradict your theories are pushed aside. So I ask you again, Technodrome International (the sub- company of ZYX music) was started in 1987 in order to focus on releases that are Techno. It was inspired by Talla. Find me a company older than that? And show me evidence and Not just your words. If you cannot provide an answer then it proves my point 100%!

You are in a minority of 1 (2 if you count Talla) on this, and I've seen the interviews with Talla, heard what he has to say, have also heard what other notable German DJs have said on the matter. Also, you are completely missing the significance of the NY electro scene. Electro is essentially the result of Kraftwerk colliding with funk via Planet Rock. Soul, Funk, Electro and House were significant influences on techno, this is universally accepted, again, you are in a very strange place in being the only person to claim otherwise. What is George Clinton's home town? Where was Motown Records based? And where did Depeche Mode go to find out what techno was all about? Who did remix work for Cabaret Voltaire in 1990? They could have popped over to Germany but they didn't, because no one outside of Germany knew this guy Talla existed until much later, and only when he had jumped on the Frankfurt trance bandwagon, he was never a techno DJ, becaseu he was too busy spinning EBM, Industrial, and New Beat. Technoclub was unknown outside of German until much later on, when techno - real techno - became a big deal. Face facts, no one cares about Talla's word on Techno and even in Germany they argue amongst themselves about what is or isn't real techno. There is Germany's version of techno history, and then there is the rest of the worlds, the latter views Detroit as the home of Techno and there's very little you can do or say to change that.

The "others" you are refering must be some famous mystery people. Unfortunately the point here is being missed. Talla like Saunders, Atkins and many more artists to come after were influenced by groups like Kraftwerk, that is not a debate. But to state that Talla is just another person to play EBM, then I can say the same about Atkins and Saunders where as their music sounds more like EBM than Talla. It is just your opinion. The only way anyone can clear up the whole origin of the word "Techno" is to hear it from Talla's mouth himself. By us debating back and forth will solve nothing. But one thing is for sure, Talla did receive an award for opening the very first "Techno club" anywhere. He received it just last month (April) so I do not know where you are trying to debate an undisputed fact. For us to be even talking about it says it all. The club is world famous. From North America to Asia. People from around the globe started going there once its fame built up so I do not know what you meant that it was unknown?! American funk has nothing to do with Techno, the main influence that exists in Techno is House. But there are different forms of Techno. That house form of Techno is something more related to groups like 2 Unlimited. Jurgen Laarman, the person you qouted, also states that Talla coined the term "Techno". This article has been printed in a ZYX release "The History of Techno" (4cd box set) released in 1996. Mikulski's co. clearly recognize Talla's contribution to the world. When he quoted using the word "electronic Technology" he clearly used the term for some new forms of EBM that would influence everyone including djs in Detroit and Chicago. The fact is that he took it to another level and created a newer sound partially influenced from EBM and partially a creation of his own that did not exist before him. It was something new that was never heard on the shores of North America till the early 90s but yet had a following in many clubs through out Europe in the 80s. Talla also took part in creating the sub-company of ZYX Records "Technodrome International" in early 1987. This company was specifically geared to new Techno releases. Something like this did not come to exist in America till the 90s. You may see the whole list of releases right here on discogs. All the releases under this label were Techno related songs.

Talla is just some guy who bundled all early 80s electronic music, irrespective of its stylistic origins, into one category, and called it techno, because, as he says, the music was made using electronic technology, this is not the invention of a genre, it's a personal point of view. Talla states that at a record store he worked in, City Music @ Frankfurt's Central Station, he placed records by acts such as New Order, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, Heaven 17 and Front 242 in one category and called it all techno. That's Synthpop, New Romanticism, and New Beat bundled together, a blanket categorisation that was exclusive to Frankfurt. He later extended this to include Industrial and EBM acts such as DAF, Nitzer Ebb, Nine Inch Nails, Skinny Puppy etc. In Germany this kind of labelling was disputed, particularity in Berlin. Jurgen Laarman, of the electronic music fanzine Frontpage stated that 'Technoclub' had historical merit in being the first club in Germany to play almost exclusively electronic music, but it was more or less an underground thing for suburban kids, "it was never really hip to go there". Laarman stated that the music Talla was calling techno, everyone else, particularly those in Berlin, were identifying as Industrial and EBM.The first real techno club in Germany was started by DJ Tanith in Berlin, 1989, Cyberspace @ UFO, Wednesday nights. In Spring 1990 Tanith and Wolle X.D.P held the first large techno parties in East Berlin called Tekknozid. At that time the Technoclub in Frankfurt was something totally different, it was an EBM/Industrial night, nothing to do with techno as we now know it. What surprises me about your version of musical history is that it completely ignores the influence of American funk, electro, and house music on the development of techno, when they are influences that are widely acknowledged by German DJs from back in the day, Talla was still playing EBM when others were moving techno forward, in the footsteps of Chicago and Detroit.

Unknown to most the German Group "Techno Freaks" released this record with the title" A multi Mega Mix Dance Version of Techno sound Productions" on the cover in early 1988. If there is one track worthy to be called a classic it is the track "IBIZA". A track that has seen many remakes throught the years. Techno Freaks are one of the first groups (only) after Talla 2XLC "The Father of Techno" ,who had coined the term )to ever release an album with the word "Techno" on the cover. The word "Techno" is clearly used as a music style on this release. Great track written by the famous group "Amnesia" and remixed.

Regardless of what anyone writes about Morrison or Atkins, their music is not what most people consider Techno music. We can all keep listing anyone who used the word "Techno" on an album, song ect... and it can have no relation to the style of music whatsoever. This style is purely a European creation and that is a 100% fact. And this is coming from someone who does not live in Europe.

Actually, you have it badly wrong, Junie Morrison's 12" 'Techno-Freqs' came out in 1984, the same year saw Juan Atkins release 'Techno City'. Man Parrish's 'Techno Trax' appeared on an album in 82, and in 1981 Yellow Magic Orchestra released an album entitled 'Technodelic'.